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Post by CTB on Mar 11, 2021 19:41:39 GMT
Has anyone got an exploded engine diagram showing how the oil is distributed around the engine? I have noticed that oil is only coming up one side of the head into the camshaft area, I assume it should be coming up both sides ?
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Post by johnfcbn44dx on Mar 11, 2021 21:20:35 GMT
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Post by CTB on Mar 11, 2021 22:23:29 GMT
Thanks John, just what I needed, I suspected that oil should be fed up both sides, I wonder what’s best to clean the passageways, I can only assume one side is blocked 🤔
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Post by johnfcbn44dx on Mar 11, 2021 23:30:06 GMT
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Oil ways
Mar 12, 2021 8:30:36 GMT
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Post by johnjones on Mar 12, 2021 8:30:36 GMT
Which side has low/no oil flow ?
Have you had the cylinder barrel off ?
If it's the r/h/side, if you remove the clutch cover ( ideal time to flush out the oil sump, clean the clutch drum and kick starter oil trough, and adjust the adjustable balance chain adjusting quadrant, you know about the "DOT" yes? ) and the oil pump switch ( crap collects in the oil pump switch cover, so flush that out first ) you will see the lower "tube" of the oil jet/orifice.
If you cannot see the jets tube, it's in upside down.
The oil jet on the left side is "invisible" until the cylinder barrel is off.
Oil ways to head/cam area are via the rear outer head bolts.
You know of the possible "disaster" involving the 4 inner head bolts and there holes ?
There should be good oil flow to head/cam else disaster, extremely expensive to fix !
There is a way to access the left side head oilway, remove flywheel, stator and that X head cover plug. That may well be very problematic...
Have you had the engine apart ?Note, if oil jet fitted upside down, the tube will be crushed and be blocked...
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Post by CTB on Mar 12, 2021 10:06:57 GMT
Thanks for the replies, as you sit on the bike looking forward the right hand side is not getting oil. The engine has not been apart but has stood for 27 years. I have had the clutch cover off and cleaned out the clutch drum and kick start oil trough. I should have done the oil pump switch but didnt (blast)
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Oil ways
Mar 12, 2021 18:06:24 GMT
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Post by johnjones on Mar 12, 2021 18:06:24 GMT
Is there evidence of the crank case been seperated before you had it, look along joins, any red or glue gunge.
Also any evidence of the cylinder being off before you had it, a green base gasket, or gunge...
How was the clutch nut, butchered or good, and how is it in the cam box, double copper washers ?
If it where mine, and an unknown, I would take the oil pressure switch out for a look-see in the hole and go from there.
Any history of the bike and what needed doing up to now, would give an indication as to previous owner, good at maintenance, or bad.
No oil flow suggests..
Have a look under the oil pressure switch....
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Post by CTB on Mar 12, 2021 19:05:29 GMT
Thanks John, I’ve had the clutch cover off again and took the oil pressure switch off, it was squeaky clean and the oil way behind it was clear. I don’t think the Engine has ever been opened up. Bolts are untouched and all original gaskets. The bike has only done 16000km about 10,000 miles. The engine oil had stale petrol in it so I suspect the carb floats had stuck and petrol drained into the engine. So the sump has a thick sludge in it, wish I had taken photos as a reference.Don’t know if this is a good idea but I’ve drained the oil out again and put 6 litres of diesel in the engine, I plan to leave it a week and drain. Any advise would be appreciated.
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Oil ways
Mar 12, 2021 19:22:20 GMT
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Post by BritPete on Mar 12, 2021 19:22:20 GMT
Thanks John, I’ve had the clutch cover off again and took the oil pressure switch off, it was squeaky clean and the oil way behind it was clear. I don’t think the Engine has ever been opened up. Bolts are untouched and all original gaskets. The bike has only done 16000km about 10,000 miles. The engine oil had stale petrol in it so I suspect the carb floats had stuck and petrol drained into the engine. So the sump has a thick sludge in it, wish I had taken photos as a reference.Don’t know if this is a good idea but I’ve drained the oil out again and put 6 litres of diesel in the engine, I plan to leave it a week and drain. Any advise would be appreciated. The police are looking for a suspicious character with a can and hose after people have been complaining about stolen Diesel in Cannock |
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Post by johnjones on Mar 12, 2021 20:13:21 GMT
With the oil pressure switch out, you will be able to see the oil jet tube, look up and to the left, it's not central in the switch hole, but will be seen.
If no tube is seen ( visit CMSNL or manual to see what it looks like, both ends ) then either no jet fitted, meaning masses of oil in cam box that side, it it in upside down, been crushed by the cylinder barrel base, and is now more or less blocked, meaning no oil to cam box that side.
Have a good look up to the left in the switch hole, even probe with some copper wire.
Establish if an oil jet is in there and if it's right way up, tube down.
Between the cylinder block and head in the oilway, there are large diameter dowels surrounded by a rubber "tube" seal, so that cannot collapse like on some bikes.
I would drain out the diesel.
With the clutch cover off it is easy enough to jet solvent into the sump labarynth to flush out all the sludge. A washing up liquid bottle or similar to spray thru the gaps seen by clutch area etc..
Model shops sell hand operated fuel pumps that Are great for this type of job, maybe online mail order....Avoid compressed air spray that will splatter the crap everywhere....
Low pressure and quantity.
How was the clutch nut and seal line as seen from by clutch ?
Honda bond is light "caramack" chocolate colour ( showing my age, mmmmm caramack 😊😊 ) or light tan colour, what colour is the join line ? Take a picture.
If join line is black or blue or red or even orange, silver even, and the clutch nut has been butchered then.........
Can you see the oil jet tube ?
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Post by CTB on Mar 12, 2021 20:47:21 GMT
Thanks for your input John I will take some photos once I take the clutch cover off again.
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Post by johnjones on Mar 13, 2021 8:30:19 GMT
There are 2 further possibilities of incorrect fitment, but rather unlikely.
From memory it is impossible to fit the main bearing shells incorrectly blocking the head oil hole in the shell holder, the upper crank case.
From memory it is impossible to fit the cylinder base dowels, and rocker arm carrier dowels incorrectly, thus blocking the small squareish oilway feeding the oil passage up the head bolt hole, but "sealer" can, which is why sealer should not be used.
The green or base gasket has head activated glue...and will not need trimming in the area of the oil jet.
I will try and get in the shed to take pictures of what I mean this afternoon.
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Post by CTB on Mar 13, 2021 11:39:40 GMT
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Post by buster on Mar 13, 2021 12:42:43 GMT
doesnt look like they've ever been apart to me. makes me wonder if a bit of stray gasket goo has somehow got pulled up that oil feed? I'll have an empty set of cases on the meet tonight, so we can follow the oilways through
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Oil ways
Mar 13, 2021 13:58:41 GMT
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Post by johnjones on Mar 13, 2021 13:58:41 GMT
The oil jet/orifice is there and fitted the right way, tube down, but.....
Sealer line looks too gold/silvery to me, balance chain DOT in worn out segment, looks as if it's 5 o clock ish, and cylinder base gasket looks non oe...
Lots of dirt in there, post a picture of the cam area, head bolts and valve springs...
If it where mine it would be engine out and strip down, after a good clean down first, outside and inside...due to balance chain alone, never mind anything else, apart from cam oil supply problem.
Balance chain system is either worn out or assembled wrong...
You will be able to see balance chain "drwp" and probe slack via the gap between main bearing ladder casting and front of crankcase...whilst the engine is stationery...
Bad news I'm afraid...
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