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Post by growntree on Oct 11, 2022 13:04:51 GMT
So I've stripped the engine back down again and I've got that missing piece in there now. and I have now got the engine to this stage I also fitted the valves and then removed them one at a time to replace the valve stem oil seals when I discovered there were replacements in the gasket pack, lol. I also discovered some other rubber rings in the pack. The large runs look like the ones that go round the cylinders and the small ones look like the ones that go on the cylinder head bolts. What are the middle ones for?
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Post by growntree on Oct 11, 2022 13:17:09 GMT
you might be able to sneak it in with a bit of a jiggle after loosening the bridge piece, I'd check the balance wheel timing again though, easy to jump a tooth on the crank I just took the whole bridge off and redid the balance chain timing as I've had to do it a few times now and it is getting slightly easier to figure out how to get both balance weights in the right place so they line up when the bridge is seated.
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Post by johnjones on Oct 11, 2022 13:24:13 GMT
Can't zoom into your pictures...
I notice the balance chain adjustable adjusting quadrant is not fitted, hope the shaft dot and spring etc. are in/on correctly else you will be taking the engine apart again, practise makes perfect.
O rings, yes larger ones on cylinder sleeves, the rubber tubes go over the rest outer head bolt dowels and the middle rings look like the ones that go into the short rubber/alloy stubs between head and carbs...
All/any filth/corrosion on parts will end up in the oil, pass through oil pump ( if they pass thru the oil pick up pipe gauze ) and end up in the paper oil filter...
Con rod oil holes face the rear of the engine, the "major" thrust side of the cylinder wall.
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Post by growntree on Oct 11, 2022 13:34:39 GMT
You know of CMSNL for the very informative exploded views and actual pictures of the actual parts....you have a Haynes manual... You know of the relevance of the balance shaft dot and eccentric, not to mention the slotted quadrant... Also con rod oil holes, shell cut outs and big end grading numbers ( which can be difficult to see )ink stamp on the oil hole side flat face of the rods big end... On a 250 complete strip down and reassembly I like to fit prepared piston/rod assemblies into the prepared cylinder and fit that unit in place ( oil jet "tubes" downwards ) held by two dummy bolts. Then add chains, crank etc.... On a 400 the big end "eyes" will pass through the cylinder... Read, digest and take your time with engine reassembly and refit to bike, else do it all again... With engine in frame and clutch cover off ( it's so much easier to fit with a light engine, no clutch, flywheel etc. ) and some oil in the sump, it is possible to prime the lub system by hand via a naked oil pump sprocket, so you know how hard that system and chain has to work... Enjoy... I left the con rods attached to the crankshaft, so I can't use your useful trick this time. I've used assembly lube on everything and thought I'd spin the engine over by hand to get oil everywhere before the first start. I keep having problems with the haynes manual as it'll have a picture of something that seems obvious from the text and then not have a picture of something that seems completely baffling in the text. I usually get through it by just leaving it alone for a while and coming back to it after having a good think, lol. The diagrams are good on cmsnl, but I sometimes have trouble figuring out which section I should be looking in to find a particular part.
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Post by growntree on Oct 11, 2022 13:46:27 GMT
Can't zoom into your pictures... I notice the balance chain adjustable adjusting quadrant is not fitted, hope the shaft dot and spring etc. are in/on correctly else you will be taking the engine apart again, practise makes perfect. O rings, yes larger ones on cylinder sleeves, the rubber tubes go over the rest outer head bolt dowels and the middle rings look like the ones that go into the short rubber/alloy stubs between head and carbs... All/any filth/corrosion on parts will end up in the oil, pass through oil pump ( if they pass thru the oil pick up pipe gauze ) and end up in the paper oil filter... Con rod oil holes face the rear of the engine, the "major" thrust side of the cylinder wall. Yes, the spring is on and the clip thingy. The shaft dot settled between about 12 and 1 o clock so I put the splined adjuster on in the middle of its travel and tightened up both nuts. I checked the chain tightness with a handy spanner which would fit through the gap and it is nice and tight. I probably don't need those two rings then as the rubber stubs for the carburettor are a bit past it, so need replacing.
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Post by johnjones on Oct 11, 2022 15:28:53 GMT
With the engine right way up, the dots 3 o clock position is full unadjusted. The shaft rotates anticlockwise due to the spring loading. The dots 9 o clock position is maximum available adjustment, due to the shafts eccentric.
This is shown quite well in the Haynes book of lies....spotted any mistakes in it yet ?
If the balance chain is too tight, accelerated wear happens.
With the clutch cover on and the smallish slotted screw cover removed, it is just possible to view the dot, and, using a probe, balance chain "droop" and tension/slack can be felt and seen thru the hole, and the gap between main bearing ladder casting and inner surface of the front of the crank case wall.
Do not attempt this when the engine is running.
Do not attempt to adjust balance chain with engine running or rotating. This will result in the chain being overtight.
Your balance weights solid type ?
Check con rod holes...
Check oil jets to rear outer head bolts and cam area, tubes downwards with engine right way up....
No sealer on this engine other than c/case horizontal joint, and centre head bolt area on rocker carriers ( to prevent oil leak from that area which will dribble down head/cylinder fins in the middle...
Sealer finding its way into threaded holes will burst the casting. Come across far too many of these engines with half a threaded hole lurking on the sump floor !
Be carefull fitting rocker carriers with rocker arms fitted else end up with a bent valve or worse, a broken guide.
I like to fit rocker carriers with no arms fitted, fitting arms when head just nipped up, then remove one sides outer head bolts, fit arms etc. then refitting outer bolts and nip up. Do one side at a time. When done, torque head bolts in 3 stages....but thats me.
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Post by growntree on Oct 11, 2022 16:13:02 GMT
With the engine right way up, the dots 3 o clock position is full unadjusted. The shaft rotates anticlockwise due to the spring loading. The dots 9 o clock position is maximum available adjustment, due to the shafts eccentric. This is shown quite well in the Haynes book of lies....spotted any mistakes in it yet ? If the balance chain is too tight, accelerated wear happens. With the clutch cover on and the smallish slotted screw cover removed, it is just possible to view the dot, and, using a probe, balance chain "droop" and tension/slack can be felt and seen thru the hole, and the gap between main bearing ladder casting and inner surface of the front of the crank case wall. Do not attempt this when the engine is running. Do not attempt to adjust balance chain with engine running or rotating. This will result in the chain being overtight. Your balance weights solid type ? Check con rod holes... Check oil jets to rear outer head bolts and cam area, tubes downwards with engine right way up.... No sealer on this engine other than c/case horizontal joint, and centre head bolt area on rocker carriers ( to prevent oil leak from that area which will dribble down head/cylinder fins in the middle... Sealer finding its way into threaded holes will burst the casting. Come across far too many of these engines with half a threaded hole lurking on the sump floor ! Be carefull fitting rocker carriers with rocker arms fitted else end up with a bent valve or worse, a broken guide. I like to fit rocker carriers with no arms fitted, fitting arms when head just nipped up, then remove one sides outer head bolts, fit arms etc. then refitting outer bolts and nip up. Do one side at a time. When done, torque head bolts in 3 stages....but thats me. The adjustment of the balance chain was fully due to the spring, so hopefully should be just right. The dot on the end is between the 12 and 1 o'clock positions. The weights are the solid type. I used visbella black hi-temp gasket maker on the crankcase horizontal joint which took ages to clean off when I had to take it all apart again to fit the missing balance chain guide as it hadn't had a chance to fully set, but I thought it was best to completely replace it all. Thank you for the tip with fitting the rockers, I'll use that method when I get that far.
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Post by johnjones on Oct 11, 2022 17:08:56 GMT
Many many many years ago one of these engines very nearly rolled off the bench, so I made a pair of "feet" bolted to the front and rear mounting holes...
I still have to work single handed...
When it comes time to fit the cylinders, if you have the pliers and band type piston ring compressors, lovely, if not think "plastic drain pipe"...or at least an assistant. Piston rings are easily broken.
Oil control rings, single component or 3 component type ?
These engines are heavy but with "sky hooks" the task is easier when fitting to frame.
But you will probably use the "lower the frame onto the engine" method.
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Post by growntree on Oct 11, 2022 21:30:25 GMT
Many many many years ago one of these engines very nearly rolled off the bench, so I made a pair of "feet" bolted to the front and rear mounting holes... I still have to work single handed... When it comes time to fit the cylinders, if you have the pliers and band type piston ring compressors, lovely, if not think "plastic drain pipe"...or at least an assistant. Piston rings are easily broken. Oil control rings, single component or 3 component type ? These engines are heavy but with "sky hooks" the task is easier when fitting to frame. But you will probably use the "lower the frame onto the engine" method. I've considered getting a set of piston ring compressors. Do you have any recommendations? The oil control rings are the three component type. I was planning to use the wheelie truck with a motorbike jack underneath as I did when I took the engine out.
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Post by andy1kenobe on Oct 12, 2022 10:34:13 GMT
I've never owned ring compressors. I've always favoured the tin can and pliers method as taught by my Dad about 45 years ago. Worked every time
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Post by growntree on Oct 19, 2022 15:53:39 GMT
Not much happened to the superdream last weekend as I was collared by my son to do some work on his gl500. First job was to wire up the keyless ignition he got from somewhere on the internet and next he wanted to replace the rear mudguard with a triumph one he got from the local bike breakers. So the old pillion seat brackets were cut off the frame and a new bracket for the triumph mudguard was made and welded on. Still got another bracket to make for the front end of the mudguard to make it fully secure. I didn't get any further with the engine for the superdream as the piston ring compressors I found on amazon on Friday which advertised next day delivery changed to a week long delivery as soon as I'd ordered them, so have cancelled and machine mart is supplying them instead along with a deglasing tool which I'll collect on Saturday. I've just been looking at paint and it seems to be pricey stuff. I'd have a go myself if it was the price of normal halfords style rattle cans, but might be looking for someone else to do it judging by the paint cost, lol. I'm undecided about the frame at the moment whether to just run it down and rattle can it or get it blasted and properly painted or powder coated. What has everyone else done?
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Post by CTB on Oct 20, 2022 7:52:49 GMT
Powder coating is relatively cost effective, personal choice I have done both and prefer poŵder coat, if you get all the brackets and stands done it usually costs £150-200
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Post by growntree on Oct 23, 2022 18:02:18 GMT
Powder coating is relatively cost effective, personal choice I have done both and prefer poŵder coat, if you get all the brackets and stands done it usually costs £150-200 That sounds quite reasonable. Cheers muchly for the tip.
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Post by growntree on Oct 23, 2022 18:28:08 GMT
Well the engine is complete and back in the frame for now as I wanted to see if it worked. After a bit of wiring repair, the ignition turns on and the starter spins when I press the starter button, but no sign of a spark.
So, on with the testing. I've already fitted new spark plugs and caps, so I'm discounting them as being faulty for now and I've tried disconnecting the black and white wire, although I've also tested the wire and it is earthed when kill switch is off and not earthed when kill switch is on run.
I've found a guide from rex's speed shop about testing the stator and they're a little low. Green and white is 310r rather than 320r, blue and white is 4r rather than 5r, green and pink is 15r rather than 16r. Green and light blue is the only one that seems to be ok from the guide at 144r which is in the range specified of 135-145r.
I'm not quite sure how to test anything else, although I did try the two wires between the cdi and the coil as my multimeter has frequency on it which reads 35hz when trying to start which seems a bit low as I'm guessing there should be two sparks per revolution and I'd have thought the starter would spin the engine at more that 17.5rpm with the spark plugs out.
I may have to see what the gl500 uses as I assume a coil is a coil in terms of testing for spark as the cdi will just chuck out 12v and the coil will just amplify whatever the input is?
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Post by buster on Oct 23, 2022 18:54:59 GMT
the figures for the stator test sound ok if the temperature was a bit below 20 degrees celsius?
the system delivers a 'pulse' to the cdi every 360 degrees of engine rotation, so you get a spark on both cylinders for each rotation of the engine. only one cylinder is on the firing stroke at this time and the other cylinder's spark is 'wasted'
a known good spark plug is quite useful as you can just plug it into the plug caps one at a time (making sure its earthed) and check you have a spark that way
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